Monday, June 02, 2008

Kevin Randle elucidates the infamous exchange between Sen. Barry Goldwater and Gen. Curtis LeMay:

So, where does this leave us? Well, we have multiple sources which quote Goldwater (including letters he wrote himself) referring to the Roswell case specifically and to a UFO landing generally. We have him talking about it being highly classified, so high classified in fact that he could not gain access as either a United States senator or an Air Force major general. And he confirmed in those sources (I'm thinking the New Yorker and the Larry King broadcast would be hard to dispute) that LeMay cussed him out.

The only thing we can't establish is if this referred to the Roswell UFO crash. It certainly suggests that there are some highly classified secrets out there that deal with UFOs and some sort of physical evidence from them. It also opens the door for the Roswell case... Goldwater did use Roswell in his later communications.

1 comment:

dr. x said...

Ah, the old "Blue Room" story! Do tell, if you please...

Intriguing 'ancient' history. But, there's much more to this, and related stories, as only partially noted below--here's my 2.4713141592653 cents of input and opinion, for whatever it may be worth to you, dear reader:

While these verbal (and written) exchanges between Goldwater and LeMay (and others), as reported by Randle and other researchers, and also documented elsewhere, may or may not have referred to the Roswell case specifically (that is, at least publicly, unknown and so far not clearly documented), it _does_ suggest there are and were some physical materials or hard evidence of some kind (perhaps ground-trace soil materials or other spectroscopically rare or "unusual" chemical and metallic-trace evidence, and possibly residue and fragments of metallic "alloys" and/or "ceramics," etc.), gathered from some relatively rare CE-2 (and possibly CE-3) incidents or "cases."

These component physical materials were and probably still are in the possession of the USAF, elements of its intelligence apparatus, and some compartmentalized sections of the US government, somewhere, despite their perpetual denials, and I also suspect were (or are) held within certain elements of the corporate defense contractor industry for classified evaluation and analysis, and any such materials that may exist does (and will) remain classified, only in part based on the old, decrepit chestnut and technically legal justification of witholding pre-decisional and operational data (and related older "sources and methods" provisions of executive branch and national security-related classified orders, and both public and secret bodies of US federal law), and thus are not subject to or required under FOIA/PA or Mandatory Declassification Review requests (MDR's) to be exposed or released. The Goldwater-LeMay exchanges are only a relatively small part of this story and related evidence.

There is evidential documentation, good anecdotal indicators, and even some declassified and/or released USG records of this that have been disclosed over time, and that certain materials were recovered, and were analyzed, in detail. Make of that what you will. YMMV.

As an aside, let's just also say the "UFO mythos" has often been very useful to elements within the US government, and certain of it's military and intelligence components, beyond the AFOSI, for strategic and offensive/defensive psychological warfare purposes, both domestic and foreign in thrust, and with clear intent, although not usually publicly recognized as such, especially during the "cold war" era, but also beyond and after that period, including now and in the forseeable future, very unfortunately, again IMHO.

This "trace" or other physical evidence may or may not have come from "real" CE-2/3 cases, and in fact I suspect the majority (known about within aspects of the quieter, somewhat closed, private UFO "research community," or "invisible college, as it were, and such as it is) were hoaxed and/or manipulated for various reasons, both by individuals outside of the US government, and, in some cases, from within the USG; specifically, particular elements of military and/or intelligence organizations, at times in the past. For now, I will characterize that as just my, and others', speculation or theory, although I do believe that is most likely factual.

As far as I know, however, these various physical analyses do not prove any extraterrestrial or non-man-made artificial materials were discovered. The materials examined were unusual, particularly in relation to where and how they were derived, generally from ground trace cases, but were usually prosaic, though rather odd, in nature, and not native to the outlying ground or soil near the, usually, CE-2 cases involved.

Some may have been deposited within alleged "landing locations" as part of either individual or orchestrated (both USG and non-USG) hoaxed cases, and a much lesser number were not hoaxed, as far as can be determined at present.

(However, as far as I am aware, there are no evidential "smoking guns" in this regard--only the occassionally intense smell of gunsmoke itself wafting around, and everyone knows that may or may not have come from any fired, or shall we say, simulated "weaponry" or "guns.")

I believe some of these hoaxed former cases, where this evidence, which may have included Roswell, derived from and were done for military and intelligence psyop purposes, for cold war intelligence and strategic purposes or reasons of various kinds. Some were not. This is a large part of the "hidden history" that still remains largely inadequately documented, due to government denial and resistance, and some individual fear of ridicule and loss of reputation and/or possible consequences of "going public" with anything less than absolute forms of verifiable proof.

While there are some intriguing references to these facts in the old Project Blue Book (and prior Sign and Grudge projects) files [see:], better documentation exists elsewhere, and outside of that data collection--see, for example the original analyses of Dr. Leon Davidson, Dr. Bruce Maccabee, Stanton Friedman, et al, of PBB SR #14, and the encyclopaedic series of booklets (generally referred to as the "Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse" series, for some odd reason) documenting the history of the UFO phenomenon from Loren Gross, 1st and 2nd editions, if you can find them--however, since they contain much copyrighted source material, Gross' work is only intended for distribution to serious UFO researchers and related groups and/or private libraries--CUFOS has copies, for example, I believe. These documents and other materials are all quite revealing of supporting data, outside of PBB record sources and documentation. There is a plethora of further, useful information if you look for it, but, as always, caveat emptor, in the process of separating the vast chaff from the miniscule grains of wheat. The signal within the noise is there, however, and persistent, even though it's difficult to find and properly quantify. Of that, at least, I am convinced.

It is also known that some physical materials, including metals and ceramic elements, were analyzed by USAF related elements, and most likely via the Battelle Memorial Institute, who were on contract to and involved in more than just the elaborate UFO analysis conducted by BMI in Columbus, Ohio, under Projects Stork, and later White Stork, for ATIC at Wright Field (later Wright-Patterson AFB) on a SECRET / Restricted Information level between 1951 and 1953, and that was later released in 1955 with a debunking summary and press release, despite the evidence contained within this 316 pp report that the best UFO case reports and analysis indicated true unknowns (NOT insufficient evidence cases, which had much different characteristics) or what were "real UFOs" in nearly a third of the cases examined.

Project Blue Book Special Report #14 even today still remains one of the best sources for circumstancial evidence for a genuine UFO phenomena, of some kind, but, it is only one of the thousands of pieces of the puzzle still to be figured out, if ever, and to be clearly resolved.

Now, in conclusion, if there are any physical materials of a concrete nature that have, by chance, been recovered as the result of some actual non-human "probe, "ship", "crash" or other intercessionary incident, whether ET, ED, CT, or other, I suspect, in turn, that the most likely scenario concerning this is that the material, while "genuine," or physically real enough, would amount to a "plant" of sorts, or fabricated simulacrum, a synthesized simulation of something we might be provided for indirect or misleading purposes by any truly advanced form of non-human intelligence. And that, of course, is a whole "'nother ball of waxy thingedness," or however you want to conceptualize the how and why of that idea, or guess.

I would assume no less than that if any advanced non-human intelligence is involved in any possible or relatively small number of cases on record, whether public or not, that they, not unlike our own intelligence apparat, would be playing things that are "given" or found really quite "close to the vest" and would be at the least as sophisticated and probably much more covert or deceptive than virtually any human even could be. In my more extended reveries, or thought experiments, I have sometimes wondered if Roswell might have been something along these lines of possibility, and thus a kind of both human and perhaps non-human deception and "doubled" psyop or cover-up of sorts--weird enough for you? Who knows? Not I, but in lieu of verifiable proof and diamond-clad, hard evidence, a variety of possibilities need be at least considered and hypotheses tested, if one can. Science, and logic, demand no less of us in such an extraordinarily challenging area of "reality defintion," as it were.

I also realize that much of the above, in regard to the origins, sources, and nature of physical materials and the disposition thereof may seem not only rather nebulous, but also somewhat contradictory, but, again, just like the proverbial "signal within the noise," there are definitely some things of importance and reality to the questions my comments, among others, do raise.

I'll leave it there for now, and welcome any comments, questions, or critiques that anyone may wish to make comment on or post here. As you can see, I do have quite a lot to say, and do know, but this commentary is enough for now. Depending on the input this statement may create or generate, I may have more to say here about these matters, if anyone is really interested.

And so, what do you think?