Monday, April 09, 2007

Seth Shostak and Kal Korff? Oh, well. I suppose they deserve each other.

18 comments:

Paul Kimball said...

Let me get this straight. Korff claims he isn't a debunker. Indeed, he claims he's seen a UFO. Indeed, he goes even further, and says they are intelligently controlled, probably ET. But he's going on a show with Seth Shostak, who says there's absolutely no proof for UFOs.

Yeah, right. Korff is a debunker 100%. I'd say Shostak deserves him, but nobody deserves Korff. Not even Korff.

Mac said...

Korff and Seth bashing UFOs. Man, what a show.

Shame on the SETI Institute.

Anonymous said...

Gee, is this a call-in show? Where we can ask Kal about his 5000 book deal and his 413 upcoming TV programs exposing his dastardly terrorist enemies, you know, anyone who disagrees with his nutty point of view?

I'd have a few pertinent comments and questions for Dr. Seth, also.

What arrogant, boneheaded naifs!

Mac said...

What arrogant, boneheaded naifs!

You said it. And if the SETI Institute thinks this is going to bolster their credibility, they haven't been paying attention. So take heart: this may come pack to haunt them.

Paul Kimball said...

I suspect SETI's already ragged credibility will take a small hit by association with Korff and his loony claims.

Hmm... I wonder if it is a call-in show? ;-)

Anonymous said...

Paul and Mac, Kal Korff is not a debunker. Apparently you guys are just determined to smear him. He saw a UFO and has always posted for years even on UFO Updates that he is not a debunker. Even Prometheus won't dare call Korff a debunker, although they have no problem calling Klass or others debunkers.

You guys are wrong. Also, you have no idea what Korff will say on this show. So your comments that they're going to "bash" UFOs are not only way out of line, you can't possibly "know" what you are claiming.

I will never read your blog again.

I wanted to find the truth, and all I see here is a small group of people who know each other, slap each other's backs, and you spoon feed your own biases.

So WHEN will both of you admit you are wrong, and that you have NO right to "judge" any show before you have seen it?

Mr. Paul Kimball, are you an attorney or are you not? You posted on your web site that you were. Then you said you did not ever make such a claim. Yet it is there, on your own web site.

And you guys wonder why I won't read your blogs anymore?

I am sending this to SETI and also McConnell at the X Zone. Korff is right, people like you SHOULD be held up as examples of what is wrong in the UFO field.

Extremely disappointed,
Daniel Klein

Anonymous said...

Dear Mr. Klein (if that is your real name):

So, you're extremely disappointed? And you're planning to "tell on us"?

How disappointing you are, not to mention a bit juvenile.

You are free to read whatever you want, and comment accordingly, as I am about you. This is still a free country (I think).

But, I have to ask you this: have you read Mr. Korff's website? Do you actually think he has a 500 book deal with some undisclosed publisher? Do you think he is actually involved in producing a 27 part TV series on what he perceives as the terrorist menace in the middle east? Do you actually believe he has a coterie of former European supermodels acting as journalists on his behalf? Do you think he's actually some super duper secret agent? Have you read his rather poorly written "Roswell" book, and his numerous other web postings of self-aggrandizing blather? Look more deeply, is all I ask you to do. The truth is really out there. As is Korff! 8^}

Whether you understand this or not, either Kal is having us on, or, more likely, has simply lost his mind. Read his stuff carefully, again, with a critical eye.

If you don't, then you and he, plus Dr. Seth kind of deserve each other. All the rest of us "here" are basically looking for the truth of these rather esoteric paranormal matters. Can you say the same, or do you already know what "the truth" is? If so, please share it with us.

McConnell, Korff, and Shostak all have some superficial "truthiness" and "informational liabilities" to account for. But, if you buy their "goods", be prepared to consume spoiled, inedible "food for thought". Or something like that. Feh! Maybe you just don't get it.

And yeah, Paul K. is an attorney, just not an active, practicing one. Do you get that simple distinction?

Or do you just choose not to allow your intellect to discriminate between deception or fraud and what really is at issue here? Please share with us why you think Korff has any credibility left. I'd like to know why you buy that tripe. And McConnell's X-Zone program? On an "Art Bell" level, which is pretty sad and propagandistic. And not even very well done. Use your mind, please! Over to you, earthman.

Paul Kimball said...

Mr. Klein:

There's nothing wrong with being a debunker, if it's bunk. So Korff has nothing to be ashamed of, and I don't know why he runs from that label so much. I embrace it, when I'm debunking bunk (like the Aztec case).

Here's my challenge to ace UFO researcher Kal Korff (you can pass it along to him): When you're on Seth's show, instead of just focusing on debunking Roswell, which is old hat, how about challenging Seth on those cases Kal claims are good ones (and I agree), like RB47? Go at Seth to explain that one. Go into detail on the case, so he can't duck and dodge. Call Brad Sparks up and have him brief you. Tale advantage of the platform you'll have to make a positive contribution. Roswell is yesterday's news. Make your point quickly, and then move on to the exciting stuff that Seth doesn't want to discuss.

In other words, instead of complaining, make a real difference.

I'll be the first to give you public kudos and props if you do.

Paul Kimball

Paul Kimball said...

P.S.

On the lawyer question, I'll be casting my ballot this week in the elections for the NS Bar Society's governing council. Only we lawyers get to do that. ;-)

Paul

W.M. Bear said...

I dunno. It strikes me that Korf is being invited on the show to be anything BUT a "debunker." I suspect Shostak WANTS to interview the "lunatic fringe" of ufology precisely to tar the entire field with the same brush he uses to tar Korf. (Or that Korf tars himself with. Or something.)

I mean, isn't this a standard technique of "debunkers." Evidently the logic is this: debunk the lunatic fringe of an anomalistic field and you've debunked the entire field?

Anonymous said...

I'd like to see a public debate between Shostak and Jacques Vallee, myself. Then Shostak would have to crawl back into the SETI Institute with his "tales" between his legs, as Vallee is so sharp, he could fillet Dr. Seth without even trying. Talk about Shostak taking puerile aim at such a "soft" target. If he faced someone like Vallee or Friedman in a public debate, he'd end up sliced _and_ diced, and deservedly so.

However, Vallee is unfortunately "above" such "petty bickering". Shostak should be ashamed. I'm betting w.m. bear is right, and that Shostak is about to tear Korff a new one (that is, in addition to the several he's already torn for himself). Sheesh! What stupidity...

Ufological wars are so illogical, as Mr. Spock might have once said.

But it's a serious battle for hearts and minds in the ufological realm, for public opinion, or so many believe, so this is not just some unimportant issue; we all should fight the "good fight" with logic, facts and figures, etc. The truth is not just "out there", it's also "in here", IMHO.

BTW, do we really _know_ if Shostak _is_ going to do a Sunday radio show with Korff? If so, what time and station (or net station, for those out of AM/FM range)? I checked the seti.org site, looked at their events calendar, and there's nothing listed for the month of April for anything called "skeptical sundays" or other related radio program.

Maybe Korff's fantasies have risen to the level of invented/fabricated interviews!? I'd like to hear the tape of that! "Mother!--I wouldn't even harm a fly!" --Tony Perkins in Hitchcock's "Psycho" How eerily appropriate, if so. Does anyone know if this for real or not?

Mac said...

WMB--

It's possible that Korff's getting played, in which case he's about to be publicly embarrassed. But I think it's more likely Seth thinks of Korff as a fellow UFO debunker. And in Seth's rather limited view, "debunker" translates to "one of the good guys."

Seth's made it quite plain he doesn't know a thing about UFOs; why should he know anything about those in the UFO research community?

I say let him hang himself.

Paul Kimball said...

Actually, Seth and Stan had a go at it on Coast 2 Coast a few years ago, and Seth scored a TKO in my decision, because he kept pressing Stan on the best cases, and specifics, and Stan couldn't or didn't respond. I know the call-ins thought Stan had won, but he didn't, at least not to this objective observer.

Now a Seth - Vallee tilt would indeed be fascinating, but will never happen. Seth versus Brad Sparks would be a great substitute - Sparks would slice and dice him in a way that Stan, who generally sticks to his well practiced routine, which works well in a lecture hall, didn't.

As for Korff, who knows, and who cares? Maybe he'll even take my advice and press Seth on some real UFO cases.

Or maybe he'll blow up and make a complete ass of himself by attacking Mac, Myself, Kevin Randle, Royce Myers, and so on, as he's promised to do.

Anything is possible with Captain Kal!

Anonymous said...

Mr. Mac,

I am extremely disappointed by your answers, or lack thereof. You did not answer my questions or issues in fact. You avoided them.

Yes, this is my real name. May I ask why you thought any different, or are you starting to see "Kal korff lurking under every rock?"

Examples: you refuse to admit that you have no idea what Korff or anyone will say on this show. You are not psychic, as Korff has noted and has posted.

I did what you suggested, Mr. Mac, I read his web site and he seems to have already responded to you.

He also did a much better job than you did. I noticed that unlike you, Korff took every word you wrote and he responded to each claim. You guys have yet to do this or behave this way.

Regarding Mr. Kimball being a "lawyer" this is as he would say, perhaps "disingenuous."

According to the dictionaries, and the Bar in Canada and even Kimball's own school, lawyers "practice law."

If Mr. Kimball does not, and you have now confirmed this, that he does not, Mr. Kimball cannot ethically say he is a lawyer.

Instead, Kimball must qualify his claim by saying he is a non practising attorney. There is a distinct difference, and it is one that is not supplied by the way Kimball describes himself.

Does Mr. Kimball earn a ANY money practicing law?

Why can't you see this?

I am not the only one who "feels" this way. I called over to Canada and am in the process of getting an official statements now which confirm my understanding of how this term can legally be used.

The rest of your "response" not only avoids the questions I asked, but they're just a list of your attack points or issues against Kal Korff.

I have no idea if Korff really has a 500 book deal with publishers.

What I find most disturbing is that none of you, also, have any idea if this is true or not. You claim it is not true, yet you have no proof?

Just what sort of "UFOlogy" is this?

In fact, you cannot "prove" anything about his alleged publishing deals, one way or another.

As far as I know you have not even tried, either.

I have no idea if Korff has "supermodels" working for him. Based on his web site, they do not.

Since I can find no claim he has made that he does, are you not making this up?

I have done the simple step none of you bothered to do, which I find very interesting.

I am checking now and trying to contact this Miss Martina Tycova.

Mr. Mac, you claimed she can't be found on Google. I tried, and I found her the very first entry, including photo, and yes, she really did win this important contest.

I notice that none of Kimball's "supermodels" have and the Elite Modeling Agency is the top one in the world and I have a statement from them that Miss Tycova did indeed win and place third as she claims.

Did anyof you bother to invfestigate this?

No, you did not.

So I will ask ALL of you now, now that several of you have responded to my post, which I appreciate, but why are none of you doing any real investigations? Instead, you just make statements and declarations, several of which are not accurate or true.

And you expect to find the "truth" about UFOs this way?

So I am trying to contact Miss Martina Tycova now, and I intend to let people know what I have found.

Regarding the other Korff complaints you have, please show me where Korff ever said he was or is, a "secret agent."

This is a term you used, these are your words.

I have looked, and I can't find a single reference. Can you please send me a URL where Korff claimed all of this?

What am I missing here?

So have you been able to use Google properly to locate Martina Tycova yet, Mr. Mac?

Anonymous said...

Oh, boy... Mr. Klein, what do you think it means when Korff claims to be a captain in S3? Oh, forget it. I know you already know. The great pretender. Maybe you can promote yourself to Major in the imaginary S3. Better yet, make yourself a Colonel. Then you would be Kolonel Kal K. Korff (shades of Col. Klink!) Hmmm...Klein/Korff--Klue?

-------------------------------
Yow! Now _I'm_ under the great Korff's all-seeing (and all-mistaken) eye! See the following:

From: www.kalkorff.com (4/11/07)

WHAT is these people’s problem? Do they want to get exposed and humiliated and sued?

Kal Korff: Martina! How would I know!? Go ask them why they behave the way they do, or better yet, WAIT for them to change on their own. That will prove more valuable to you. For many of them won’t, and you will get to see how they REALLY are, not as they have the public believe.

Martina Tycova: Ok, so here’s the rest of the posting. Care to comment on it. here are the exact words:

At 10:40 PM, Mac said…

Korff and Seth bashing UFOs. Man, what a show.

Shame on the SETI Institute.At 10:52 PM, mr. intense said…

Gee, is this a call-in show? Where we can ask Kal about his 5000 book deal and his 413 upcoming TV programs exposing his dastardly terrorist enemies, you know, anyone who disagrees with his nutty point of view?

I’d have a few pertinent comments and questions for Dr. Seth, also.

What arrogant, boneheaded naifs!



At 10:58 PM, Mac said…

What arrogant, boneheaded naifs!

You said it. And if the SETI Institute thinks this is going to bolster their credibility, they haven’t been paying attention. So take heart: this may come pack to haunt them.



At 1:34 AM, Paul Kimball said…

I suspect SETI’s already ragged credibility will take a small hit by association with Korff and his loony claims.

Hmm… I wonder if it is a call-in show? ;-)



Kal Korff: My only real comments as we wrap this up for now, Martina, is notice the claim about me having 5,000 books. I NEVER made such a claim. I have a 500 book megapublishing deal. Too bad for this penis gallery. I have decided to use one of them on Mr. Philip Mantle, and as per last week, we will be looking at his other works as well. They say I have a deal for 5,000 books. That’s a lie. It is 500. This is either a lie, or a typo. Who knows with these guys. Sometimes its both :-)

[editorial clue: It was I that said you had a "5000 book deal", etc. To be exact, quoting myself, I actually said "...we can ask Kal about his 5000 book deal and his 413 upcoming TV programs exposing his dastardly terrorist enemies, you know, anyone who disagrees with his nutty point of view?" Didn't you get the joke? And please tell me, how would you ever possibly have the time to write 500 books? Unless they were each 4 or 5 pages long, it is nearly impossible. Get real, Kal.]--Mr. Intense (now I know why I sometimes choose an anon handle!)

My last coment, notice Mac says something VERY “deep and intellectual” here: he says, “What arrogant, bonehead naifs.”

[further editorial elucidation, as is apparently required: Mac was quoting me, once again. Did you not notice the convention in blogs, and in the real world, as indicated by his italics?!? Not only did you apparently not get it, or even understand this, you then attribute it incorrectly. Re-read this thread, you arrogant naif and first class bonehead! Sheesh! I do and I do for these kids, and what do I get?--ala old-school David Letterman]--Mr. Intense

Maybe it is just me, Martina, but I think Mac’s words here best fit Paul Kimball and Mac Tonnies.

They have a “problem” with me being on the SETI show. Too bad for them. Kimball wasn’t invited.

And I can’t wait to DISCUSS their comments on the show, to let the WORLD know how egotistical, unobjective, biased, prejudiced, untruthful, and what lies these men udder. I will also explain on the SETI show WHY the word “udder” really fits them. I think Paul Kimball knows what this word means, I invented it in his honor and to help describe how he is.

Kimball further comes close to a lawsuit by saying my claims are “loony”. Gee, I AM a Captain in S3. I DO have a reality-based TV series coming out, and also a 500 book option. I am published as many as seven times a day, minimum, through syndication. The forums Kimball used to “link” to to try and discredit me (such as Expats) are now closed because of abuse and spreading lies and slander and libels about me that I am a member of Scientology, which is a cult. NO!

So people “believed” Kimball and started doubting me at first, thought S3 had something to do with Scientology. That was when Expats agreed with me that this had “gone too far” and I spoke with Mr. Martin Howlings who founded and owns Expats, and I must say that both he and they have been great.

Another person impersonated me, twice, (thanks Paul!) and now of course we are in the process of filing a complaint with the police here (it will all be in the show) for identify theft.

To listen to these bozos “pontificate” (Kimball and Tonnies), why bother listening to the show coming up at all? These “psychic” frauds have ALREADY declared WHAT “is going to happen” on the show, which of course is a BLATANT LIE.

The FACT is, I was ASKED to be on this show. Why? Because I AM credible.

___________________________________

Yeah, sure Kal. Whatever you say. You know, this is getting pretty creepy. Perhaps we are just encouraging Kal's madness to expand exponentially. He obviously craves attention, even if negative. And he can't even understand irony, let alone a joke (5000 book deal, etc.).

Kal is not just plain nuts, he's pathological and very disturbed.

I'm feeling sickened. Note he still does not note when (date/time) or on what station(s) his prospective "chat" with Shostak is to occur.

While Kal's Fantasy Korner (www.kalkorff.com) is rather intriguing and fascinating in a kind of surreal (and that's not even an adequate term) way, I think we may be "feeding" his psychosis too rich a brew for him to handle.

More importantly, look at all the attention we've given him, some out of spite, if we would admit it. He's a laugh riot. He's also very crazy and involuted and increasingly disturbed, in a very unhealthy and expansive way. Uber creepy. The lesson here, I think, may be that he is now a distraction, and a diversion, a kind of inadvertent (?) or individual amateur psyops and disinformation promoter. Best keep that in mind for any further comment and contact with this ultra bozo. Very disturbed and disturbing, and a real waste of time and mindspace, ultimately.

A real "nightmarish carnival of mayhem" is now unfolding. We'd best not get too much more intangled in the KalWorld. He reminds me of the guy in the case upon which K-PAX, the movie, with the actor, Kevin Spacey, was based. I've got it! Spacey! Wotta descriptor! Hence, Kal will be referred to as, as per Steve Miller's old rocker, the Spacey KalBoy! Heh! Wait...I'm indulging myself here at Korff's expense. But he's such an easy, soft, target, and provides us with the bullseye every time. It's too easy, and, again, a diversionary amateurish psyop of some mystical derivation. 'Nuff said]. Supremely nutty.

And I suspect Mr. Klein is actually, or may be, Mr. Korff. His viral weirdness is spreading--don't catch the illness.

Mr. Intense

(proud "member" in standing -ha!- of the vaunted "penis gallery")

Paul Kimball said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tina Sena said...

Kal Korff is indeed a Debunker, and a raging looney to boot.

(I said that!)

Tina Sena

Anonymous said...

Update: There _is_ a Seth-based Skeptical Sundays show, and you can listen to prior broadcasts here:

http://www.seti.org/site/pp.asp?c=ktJ2J9MMIsE&b=178892#default

Additionally, this upcoming April 26 show may be the one Kal mentioned on his site, although "guests" are still to be announced:
------------------------------------

"Listen to this show starting April 26, 2007

"April 26, 2007
A Special Skeptical Sunday:
Road Trip to Roswell Part II

"Seth & Molly on the roadIn 1947, aliens intent on visiting our planet are said to have crashed into the New Mexico desert near Roswell. According to several witnesses, the U.S. military not only recovered the saucer debris (together with some dead, extraterrestrial passengers), but secreted away the evidence. There are also claims that the crumpled alien technology was reverse-engineered, providing us with hi-tech products we otherwise wouldn�t have.

"The journey continues...

"Guests

"To be announced"
--------------------------------

It does not appear to be a call-in show. Oh, darn...